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Boiler installation and other subsequent work - a fair quote?

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TickTock13

23-Aug-13 15:18

Hello, my mum asked British Gas to come out and offer her a quote for a new boiler as she needs to save money on the bills. They have quoted to change to a combi (the current one is 10+ years old, and the house/pipes/radiators are all old), and have said additional work needs to be carried out such as replacement of pipes and radiators etc.

All this was verbally quoted for at first 7-8k, but when he drew everything up the final written quote was £6297.71, (she asked about discounts, he said they stopped them a while ago for over 60's, but he gave her a slight discount, which I think is down as a 'customer control offer'?) she signed up there and then (She was planning on getting quotes from elsewhere but felt she should take the deal, and also thinks that because they are a large company there is better 'comeback' if things go wrong, whereas with local tradesman she doesn't know any of them, therefore she feels safer going with a well known name).

There is alot of work to be done, the house is old with little having been done in the last 20 odd years to it (aside from aesthetics). Though I'm concerned, as she just needed to save money on her bills, although they have guaranteed she will, they've stated that it'll take 15 years to recoup the upfront cost - but the house will be more efficiently and effectively heated and have lower bills (at the moment it takes a long time to heat up, and even then some rooms are still barely warm).

I think legally she has a 7 day cooling off period, is what's quoted below relatively reasonable for the work being done?

(the house is a large 4/5 bed detached)

The quote-

Boiler:

Worcester Bosche Greenstar 28i Junior combi boiler

= £999.00

Standard boiler replacement:

1 Year compimentary homecare 200 x1

Horizontal flue terminal x1

Connect boiler electrics and test x1

Worcester filling loop x1

Conventional to Combi boiler replacement installation x1

= £1,819.02

Customisation and compliance:

supply and fit electric point (fused spur) x1

Condensate waste to external soil pipe x1

External condensate connection x1

Install pipe (15mm x 3mtrs length) (X2)

Install gas pipe work (22mm x 3 mtrs length) (X7)

Red brick building work x1

Additional work (labour only) (X3)

Waste collection and disposal (in accordance with health and safety regulations) x1

=£1,273.03

System reliability:

Condensulate Extreme - External Condensate Frost Protection x1

System water treatment and power cleanse x1

Install 22mm Magnetic system filter x1

Customer is not interested in a green Deal Assessment x1

= £485.24

System Performance:

Wireless programmable room thermostat x1

white angled manual & thermostat radiator valves (with installation) x1

white angled manual & thermostat radiator valves (with installation) x1

white angled manual & thermostat radiator valves (with installation) x1

pair of chrome angled manual radiator valves (with installation) x1

white angled manual & thermostat radiator valves (with installation) x1

white angled manual & thermostat radiator valves (with installation) x1

white angled manual & thermostat radiator valves (with installation) x1

white angled manual & thermostat radiator valves (with installation) x1

white angled manual & thermostat radiator valves (with installation) x1

=505.83

Home enhancement:

Stelrad compact p+ radiator x1

Install replacement radiator x1

Radiator sized according to customer request x1

Stelrad compact p+ radiator x1

Install replacement radiator x1

Stelrad compact p+ radiator x1

Install replacement radiator x1

Stelrad Compact K2 Radiator x1

Install replacement radiator x1

install pipe (15mm x 3 mtrs length) x1

Stelrad compact P1 radiator x1

Install replacement radiator x1

Stelrad compact K1 radiator x1

Install replacement radiator x1

Stelrad compact p+ radiator x1

Install replacement radiator x1

Stelrad compact K1 radiator x1

Install replacement radiator x1

Stelrad compact K2 radiator x1

Install replacement radiator x1

= £1,515.59

Total gross £6,597.71

Allowances:

£150 boiler offer: £150.00

Customer control offer - £150 off RC+/T4RF/RHC when quotation includes WB 28i Junior/25Si/30Si boiler: £150.00

Total discounts: £300.00

NET CONTRACT: £6,297.71

Thanks so much for any help and advice.

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John Creasey - Boiler Installation & Service, Gas & Heating Maintenance

New Malden, Surrey

23-Aug-13 17:17

Hi ticktock - This has just been covered in the last week in the section Q & A Gas Experts. In there on page 2 you will note I have posted a 'prediction' on how BG 'quote'. It was amazingly accurate, not through any skill of mine, but simply they always employ the same laptop sales technique. There are several posts about this particular question - do check it out.

First and foremost - your Mum's boiler is 10+ years old. If this is a conventional 'non-combi' - this is not old!

Unfortunately a tactic of 'certain very large gas companies' is to target elderly clients with - 'your boiler is over ten years old and we might not be able to get the parts' - this is normally a con. Simply a scare tactic to get a sale.

What is the existing boiler - if just over ten years old, it will likely last longer than any modern combi replacement.

Your Mum has a 7 day 'cooling off period'.

I repeat - and not wishing to use capitals and appear to shout but - a conventional boiler just over ten years old is not old.

It will be less efficient but probably does not need changing.

Please post back with further details.

John

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John Creasey - Boiler Installation & Service, Gas & Heating Maintenance

New Malden, Surrey

23-Aug-13 17:19

PS - please note also the way that some items on the quote are disguised and double charged. See the Q&A post.

J

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TickTock13

23-Aug-13 19:08

Thank you Muttley, I've had a look at the other post, they don't make things simple do they! It's difficult for someone who's not in the trade to be able to distinguish where they are double charging and what is/isn't needed but I'm going to have a look tomorrow, perhaps if she rang them they would clarify more, but I won't hold my breath.

Apparently as the radiators and pipework are so old they'll need replacing (some floorboards up etc) and many of them are already corroded? So I think a lot of the cost is the labour to take out radiators, pipes, tanks and install a new system? Still seems steep, though I don't know the trade.

The current boiler is a GlowWorm hideaway 60B if that means anything. Currently you have to turn the hot water on manually and set the temperature dial on high to heat up and get any warm/hot water (dishes are usually washed with hot water from the kettle), if you leave it to heat up for almost an hour you can get a bath's worth. The temperature indicator is literally just a circular dial that doesn't have any numbers on, just a line going from low to high. To put the heating on the temperature's usually set to quite low, but there's no numbers to show anything accurately, so you're never quite sure what the actual temperature is. I think the appeal was to have the luxury of warm/hot water constantly (without having to manually set things) and be able to accurately control the temperature for both heating/radiators and water.

Also British Gas stated bills would also be cheaper due to being able to have a smart meter installed afterwards (said this would be free as she's transferred to them), but they can't install one yet as the current system isn't compatible (it has economy 7, but doesn't get a lot of usage due to the nature of midnight-7am). Apparently the smart meter means the bill would reflect only what's been used and therefore be cheaper, rather than the current method of what is estimated and charged for.

The thought was that a more efficient system would lessen the bills, heat the house a lot better and be more user friendly (with the points above), but perhaps not as cost efficient with British Gas. Will have a look around to see if there's any recommended local companies that she could get a quote from within the next few days to see how they compare. The only thing that's now worrying me is that they took a deposit from her so I'll look into seeing if she get's that back providing she cancels in 7 days. Thanks for your help in this

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John Creasey - Boiler Installation & Service, Gas & Heating Maintenance

New Malden, Surrey

23-Aug-13 20:36

Yes if you cancel within the 7 days, you will definitely get that back.

The Glow-worm Hidaway (great little boiler in its time) is much older than 10 years and will be very low on efficiency. If it is still working however, I would strongly suggest getting other quotes in - BG will still be happy to take you on again later even if you cancel now.

Little annoying things to chew over.....

Very nice of them to give you a complimentary 1 year care plan. They are however changing just about everything, and most of the top brand boilers come with a manufacturer's 5, 7 or even 10 years warranty included (oh, did they not mention that ?) Maybe they just want you to pay out to cover the boiler that is already covered by the manufacturer !

Bills would be much lower, and you would have a great peace of mind (with the nice long included warranty) and I would have to say that the change is probably not a bad move in the long run.

If though, things are working fine, I would definitely get some other 'Which Local' gas engineers around to quote. You will probably get a far better personal service with them apart from anything else.

Don't be bullied.

Best Wishes and do come back with more questions.

John

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TickTock13

29-Aug-13 11:32

Thanks Muttley, I've shown your reply to my mum to help clarify, on the whole she's happy she's making the right decision for the long run about replacing the system.

Here's an update; although she's very concerned about the steep pricing, due to having to let other people into her home who she doesn't know she's chosen not to get other quotes. She was originally worried that BG could refuse to install the system if she questioned the quote, but I think this site and your replies have helped explain things; that she's paying out this amount money for a service and that they are in no way are they going to suddenly turn it down because she asks about it.

She did ask BG to give her a fully itemised quote on Tuesday, he sent it this morning (the cooling off period is 7 days tomorrow).

It looks like the installation is charged for each individual thing (to make more money) rather than from a whole job perspective if that makes sense? I'm not sure.

He's also said they will turn off and drain the tank in the attic and possibly dismantle/remove it through the latch if they can - this is included in the price so she asked if they don't remove it does she not get charged for the removal and apparently it's all included in the same cost whether they remove it or not (if not they'll 'put it to one side out of the way' in the attic).

We're aware that it's alot of work, but I don't think it's fair if she's being taken advantage of, what's you opinion? Is there any final advice you would give as to if she can do anything to avoid paying any unnecessary or unreasonable costs from the breakdown?

Thanks for your help and advice on this.

Boiler:

Worcester Bosch Greenstar 28i Junior combi boiler (x 1) £999.00

Total: £999.00

Standard Boiler Replacement:

1 Year Complimentary HomeCare 200 (x 1) £0.00

Horizontal flue terminal (x 1) £209.78

Connect Boiler Electrics and Test (x 1) £196.93

Worcester filling loop (x 1) £20.08

Conventional to Combi Boiler Replacement Installation (x 1) £1,392.23

Total: £1,819.02

Customisation & Compliance:

Supply and fit electric point (fused spur) (x 1) £63.97

Condensate waste to external soil pipe (x 1) £40.03

External condensate connection (x 1) £77.74

Install pipe (15mm x 3mtrs length) (x 2) £106.84

Install gas pipe work (22mm x 3mtrs length) (x 7) £471.10

Red brick building work (x 1) £141.96

Additional work (labour only) (x 3) £320.61

Waste collection and disposal (in accordance with Health & Safety regulations) (x 1) £50.78

Total: £1,273.03

System Reliability:

Condensulate Extreme - External Condensate Frost Protection (x 1) £149.00

System water treatment & powercleanse (x 1) £96.34

Install 22mm Magnetic System Filter (x 1) £239.90

Customer is not interested in a Green Deal Assessment (x 1) £0.00

Total: £485.24

System Performance:

Wireless programmable room thermostat (x 1) £150.83

White angled manual & thermostatic radiator valves (with

installation)

(x 1) £40.00

White angled manual & thermostatic radiator valves (with

installation)

(x 1) £40.00

White angled manual & thermostatic radiator valves (with

installation)

(x 1) £40.00

Pair of chrome angled manual radiator valves (with

installation)

(x 1) £35.00

White angled manual & thermostatic radiator valves (with

installation)

(x 1) £40.00

White angled manual & thermostatic radiator valves (with

installation)

(x 1) £40.00

White angled manual & thermostatic radiator valves (with

installation)

(x 1) £40.00

White angled manual & thermostatic radiator valves (with

installation)

(x 1) £40.00

White angled manual & thermostatic radiator valves (with

installation)

(x 1) £40.00

Total: £505.83

Home Enhancement:

Stelrad Compact P+ Radiator (x 1) £184.70

Install replacement radiator (x 1) £46.70

Radiator sized according to customer request (x 1) £0.00

Stelrad Compact P+ Radiator (x 1) £184.70

Install replacement radiator (x 1) £46.70

Stelrad Compact P+ Radiator (x 1) £100.98

Install replacement radiator (x 1) £46.70

Stelrad Compact K2 Radiator (x 1) £105.90

Install replacement radiator (x 1) £46.70

Install pipe (15mm x 3mtrs length) (x 1) £51.49

Stelrad Compact P1 Radiator (x 1) £34.12

Install replacement radiator (x 1) £46.70

Stelrad Compact K1 Radiator (x 1) £51.73

Install replacement radiator (x 1) £46.70

Stelrad Compact P+ Radiator (x 1) £56.59

Install replacement radiator (x 1) £46.70

Stelrad Compact K1 Radiator (x 1) £58.20

Install replacement radiator (x 1) £46.70

Stelrad Compact K2 Radiator (x 1) £266.88

Install replacement radiator (x 1) £46.70

£1,515.59

TOTAL GROSS PRICE (inc. VAT) £6,597.71

Allowances

£150 Boiler Offer £150.00

Customer Control Offer - £150 off RC+/T4RF/RHC whenquotation includes WB 28iJunior/25Si/30Si boiler£150.00

TOTAL DISCOUNTS £300.00

NET CONTRACT PRICE (inc. VAT) £6,297.71

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John Creasey - Boiler Installation & Service, Gas & Heating Maintenance

New Malden, Surrey

30-Aug-13 07:56

Hi ticktock - really too much to answer in too little time.

Sounds like Mum wants to go ahead with BG anyway.

But - a few pointers.

Horizontal flue terminal (x 1) £209.78 (these are under £100)

Connect Boiler Electrics and Test (x 1) £196.93 (pretty much - 'fit a plug - connect to fused spur)')

Wireless programmable room thermostat (x 1) £150.83 ( a clue here - means there is no mains electrics other than connect the boiler as above - slot in wire-less unit into boiler front !)

1 Year Complimentary HomeCare 200 (x 1) £0.00 (where is your Manufacturer's 7 year warranty - maybe BG will get you to pay every year for home care?)

Conventional to Combi Boiler Replacement Installation (x 1) £1,392.23 (sounds steep, but I don't know the layout from here but at that price, I would expect this bit alone to take 1 engineer 4 days - really?)

White angled manual & thermostatic radiator valves (with

installation)

(x 1) £40.00 (bet these are the BG ones - Drayton or Honeywell are under £20 each and take about a minute to fit onto the new radiator !!)

Red brick building work (x 1) £141.96 (presumably just bricking up around the old flue - sounds posh though, doesn't it)

Radiators - no idea of sizes so can't comment.

Condensulate Extreme - External Condensate Frost Protection (x 1) £149.00 (is this required - is there an extended run from boiler to drain outside - if not - forget it)

Install 22mm Magnetic System Filter (x 1) £239.90 (these cost around £100 and take 5 minutes to fit with system drained down and new pipe-work to boiler.

My advice still stands - please get other quotes from Which recommended installers near you - I am sure you will get a more transparent quote.

I do understand if Mum won't budge - unfortunately there is still a generation out there that think of BG as 'our' national company rather than a share listed profit making Company (I have no problem with them being that - it just annoys us when the public think they are something else - think about it, if you hold BG shares, you want profits and dividends)

really wish you and Mum good luck with this.

John

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avemoss

  • Which? Member

19-Nov-14 17:57

I've just accepted a quote from my regular guy (a Vaillant approved installer ie not the cheapest), who's always done a good job, to replace my boiler with a much larger machine than mentioned here, the Vaillant EcoTec plus 627 system condensing boiler, with flue, magna clean professional filter, and CO alarm. No work needed on rest of pipework. Full parts and labour guarantee for 8 years, if regularly serviced, which with him is presently £58 a year - first year free. £2140 inc VAT. I think I could have got it a lot cheaper, but not with the same security and quality that I feel I get with these people. Tired of sorting out the mess that came from the original.

BG quoted £4635, inc VAT.

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remloc

Abingdon, Oxfordshire

19-Nov-14 20:15

They do a Ecotec plus 612,615,618,624 630, 637 but not a 627 Vaillant however that's a very good price ...

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Real boiler servicing & maintenance

Enfield, Middlesex

20-Nov-14 07:52

Hi all,

With all this talk of BG this might be a good time to mention "Small Business Saturday UK" the idea is to support, inspire and promote small business across the UK on the 6th of December and beyond.

for more info have a look at:

https://smallbusinesssaturdayuk.com/

and help support your local community, in their words "think big shop small".

All the best

Ibrahim.

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